Live-Metal.Net - Interviews: Dave Ellefson of Megadeth and F5

When you think of the short list of the most famous heavy metal bassists of all time, former Megadeth four-stringer Dave Ellefson immediately comes to mind. Along with guitarist and mainman Dave Mustaine, Ellefson (or, as he was affectionately known, Dave Jr.) helped forge and carry on the legacy of Megadeth—one of the most popular and recognizable names in metal—for two decades. Through thick and thin, Ellefson was an integral part of that band, helping to create the sub-genre of thrash metal, selling millions of records and touring the world, while influencing countless metal bands to come. Megadeth was the real deal, a real metal band. (Like Ellefson says, just watch VH1's Behind the Music: Megadeth for full proof). Then in 2002, seemingly out of nowhere, Mustaine disbanded Megadeth and the future was left uncertain for all those involved. Fans know what happened next.

Now it's 2008 and Ellefson has moved on with several projects, his latest being a new metal band, F5, which is about to release its sophomore album, The Reckoning (read review). Vastly expanding on a solid debut effort, 2005's A Drug for All Seasons, The Reckoning ups the ante in almost every musical aspect. As an added bonus, former Megadeth drummer Jimmy DeGrasso joined F5 for the recording of the album. The result is one powerhouse of a metal record and Ellefson's finest offering since his glory days in his former group. In an interview with Live-Metal.net's Jeff Maki, Ellefson talks in-depth about the formation of F5, the new album, his legendary career and eventual split with Megadeth. Dave reflects on the past and let's fans in on many things you probably didn't know about him, Megadeth and his career. This is a must read for fans of Ellefson's work, Megadeth and metal.

For those not familiar with your new band F5, can you tell us how the band came to be?

Dave Ellefson: Sure, we formed in 2003. It was me, guitar player Steve Conley and former drummer Dave Small that started the group. I met all the guys in the band except for the other guitar player, John Davis, who was actually a friend of Steve's. I met them in 2002 when I had been doin' some demo production around the country for a handful of different bands. And that's actually where I met our singer, Dale Steele, in Minneapolis. Ironically, I got connected to him through our current record label, which is OarFin Distribution. The president, Bob Pickering, had recommended me to come up to Minneapolis to produce some demos for Dale's band called Numm. And so I went up and I met Dale and his band was really good. I loved working with Dale. He was very creative, very spontaneous, but as things go with bands, they tried to shop for deals and tried to get some traction and nothing much happened. So ironically in early 2003, Dave Small had called me and said, “Hey, me and Steve are jammin' on some stuff, why don't you play on something?” Actually, Steve was putting together a demo reel to submit to Halford. It was right around the time Pat Lachman had left Halford and they were goin' through a whole band transition. Steve was tryin' to get an audition with Rob. And they kinda went their way, but out of all that, F5 was formed.

That's the long version of how it all came together. It's kind of the irony of things. At that point, my former stuff had kinda ground to a halt, disbanded and to be honest with you, I really wasn't looking to put a new band together yet, which is why I started doing some producing and things like that. But when we got in a room and started jammin', writing the first initial F5 song, it really brought back to me how much I loved just having a bass in my hand. As much as I like producing, I'm always a musician, songwriter and performer, first and foremost. It felt good to have a new home, which was now F5.

So basically, you joined the basis that would eventually become F5. You didn't go out and start the band on your own.

Exactly. And I think that was the beauty of it. Because when me and Dave and Steve were in a room playing, there was just chemistry. There was magic. The songs were heavy, and Steve and I wrote well together. We were just looking at each other, grinnin' ear to ear goin', “Wow! This is frighteningly good.” And I think the thing of it was, we were doing something different, which I liked. We were using some different tunings. We were really going way outside of what I had ever done before and to be honest with you, I found it very refreshing. Musically, it was a lot of fun. It was like, “Wow, this is a chance for a rebirth of my musical life, my career, just everything.” Because obviously, rolling out of a big band and something I had done for many many years—20 years almost ... I don't ever take for granted the perk I have right now of having a second wind. A lot of people don't get that. I consider myself very blessed that I have that, number one, but also to just be creatively inspired again after that many years doing something.

That's what I found when I started doing some production work. As I found that, there's a whole new landscape. I saw it, because we took bands like Stone Temple Pilots, Coal Chamber—a lot of what would become trend-setting bands—we took them out on their first tours, all during the '90s. So I saw firsthand, the musical shifts that were happening. But now I was out there on my own, coming from a legacy, a musical legacy to now, “OK, how do I fit into this landscape?” Because this is totally different than what it looked like before. So it's been a really interesting but a really invigorating last few years of my life. And I can say that I'm really at a place where I'm really happy with all the transitions that have happened.

It was, yeah. You had the first record and I think the good news is it shows with The Reckoning that this is a band who has a really good trajectory of always trying to improve and do better things. Our debut was not shooting our wad and now we got nothing left. So that's the good news for F5. We're much deeper than a one shot. And I think also the first record—the guys hadn't been through the rigorous drill process before, even though they're all experienced guys and had tried to get local and regional things off the ground. They played the game for a while, so they kind of knew what the drill was. Goin' in with a seasoned producer like Ryan Green, that had kind of been the norm for me. I had been through that turnstyle many, many times in a professional recording career, so I was used to it. And it was fun for me to watch the other band members go through that process, because you really kind of get ripped apart, stretched out and put back together again as a player when you go through that. And some people don't survive it, to be quite honest with you [laughs]. A lot of bands don't survive it. And I think for F5 it really improved the integrity of the band. So I think the second time around, knowing we were gonna use Ryan again, I think everyone kind of knew a little bit more what the process was gonna be.

But I think, also, after making a record and touring, you see strengths, weaknesses, and sometimes when you take a band out on the road, that can just implode the band, just rip it apart. A lot of people can't handle the road. And I think in our case what it did was really strengthen us. It made everybody roll up their sleeves and we really wanted to make this next record a real scorcher. “And what are some things we can do?”

And with us, Steve Conley—I credit him huge because he was the one guy being not only a real die-hard metalhead, but also being a great guitar player. Being one of the main writers in the band, he always challenged all us to make sure it was fitting into a certain box of metal that we all wanted it to be. All of us brought ideas in. Steve's body language [laughs] is kind of the benchmark. If he was smilin' and ripped, we knew we were good. And Steve's got a really good personality. He's almost like a Ritchie Blackmore kind of person.[laughs]. It was cool to have him as a benchmark. And it was good for me, because obviously I stand in my own shoes. And sometimes to be able to have a writing partner that I can bounce ideas off is good. It's good to have partnerships because you get perspective from other people rather than relying on your own perspective as to whether things are good enough or not. Along those same lines, John Davis didn't get to do a whole lot of writing on the first record, but his writing is all over this record—riffs, soloing, with melodies, with song creation. I think more than ever it was really a good opportunity for John and Steve to form a really good guitar team together.

And you also got former Megadeth drummer Jimmy DeGrasso to play on the album. Is he now a full-time member of F5?

Yeah, he's a full-time member for as long as he wants to be here [laughs]. And I say that because when we were writing the new material we could tell that there was a transition with Dave Small and that it really just wasn't in his heart to be there anymore, so he stepped down. And so everybody looked at me and said, “Call DeGrasso!” It was like unanimous. And I said, well, look here's the deal, Jimmy obviously gets calls to do a lot of high-line gigs and I said if he gets the call, then we're just little F5. Musically, we're a powerhouse, but there's a lot more that goes into a career than just having a great record. If Jimmy gets the call to go do some extensive touring, he might have to take that. So that's why I say he's here if he wants to be here [laughs] or is able to be here. And so far it's worked out pretty good.

It's fun for me because Jimmy and I talked about doin' some stuff in 2002 together. We talked about musicians, singers, tryin' to put something together. And it was kinda once I let that go, I wanted to do something because I wanted to work with Jimmy, but it all had to come together and it wasn't. And then outta nowhere F5 was born in my backyard in Phoenix, and again that really became my home and my passion. So it was kind of ironic, here five years later, the tides turn and the door opens for Jimmy to come. And F5 is kinda like that band he and I tried to put together five or six years ago. It's just that it came together in a little bit different direction and under different circumstances than what we had thought. And the good news about it is, it came together very genuine and honest and really without a lot of effort, which kind of makes the whole thing work much nicer than having to try to force it.

Yeah. You know that's always my fear whenever you get together with a bunch of other well known guys—that you got a bunch of well known guys, through hopefully talents, good abilities and some good luck, the cards folding out and the hand playin' your way. But sometimes you put a bunch of famous guys in a room and try to make a supergroup and that's all it is, a bunch of famous guys that can play really good. It doesn't mean that you have the makings of a group. That was some of me and Jimmy's frustration years ago, tryin' to work and be artistic. We hung with Marty Friedman, who was still my neighbor at the time before he moved to Japan. And we got together with him and did some writing, talked to a few other singers, and again, out of nowhere guys that I had recently been introduced to just after that were the F5 guys. I'm happy that Jimmy could be a part of it. In order to really make this record to kick up to the level we wanted it to be, we needed a guy like Jimmy to come in and really own it on the drums. Jimmy's playing is perfect for it and I love working with Jimmy anytime I can. I'm glad to have him be a part of F5.

Do you think because you're so well known for the Megadeth legacy that this helps or hurts F5 and other bands and projects that you may have in the future?

You know, I always consider that with everything I do. And maybe sometimes to a fault. Because my phone rings pretty steadily with things, and it seems like every year I get one or two really big A-list artists calling me to go do something with them. And sometimes I can't out of the time schedule. Sometimes, quite honestly, love the people, don't like the music. And sometimes like the music, but just know it's not the right setting [laughs]. I mean, there's a lot of things to take into consideration. Because to me, being down with the music, being able to hang with the people and also being able to hang with the lifestyle, those are all big parts of it.

I think that one of the things that I've always done in my life, ever since I picked up the bass at 11 years old, is I put my own bands together. And it's fun to go out and play with some other people like I've done with Soulfly and whatnot. But I always like to carve out my own little creative niche. And I think what I've done, moving on in recent years is with all these records I've done—F5, The Alien Blakk, Temple of Brutality or whatever is—I've always liked them because I put my own signature on them and made it one of my own. And I try to do it for the pure reason of creativity, rather if this is going to be a big success or not. Because success is fleeting [laughs], especially because the whole industry has changed. Everything's different than what it was years ago. So I can't always sit around and say, “Are the fans from years ago gonna like this or not?,” because right, wrong or indifferent, I'm not in that group anymore. So I have to at some point—I'm always respectful of those fans and I hope they come along. And I appreciate their input on stuff, but I also have to move forward with what's in my life today, and kind of live in the moment and stay focused with what's goin' on. That's what I did in the past and that worked out pretty good.

I'm sure you get this question quite a lot, but what is your current relationship with Dave Mustaine and Megadeth?

Right now, I haven't had any correspondence with anybody from there now in a couple of years. The last it was left, I think it was amicable and ... OK ... but it just seems like once we parted ways, I think our lives all just went off in different directions. I think we're all kind of following what was put in front of us to go after. That's kind of the status of it [laughs]. That's kind of where it is.

Yeah, and I hope there's not bitterness. But at the same time we're all just kinda movin' forward doin' new things. For me, creatively, with the new people and new things that have come into my life, I'm actually really happy where I'm at right now. And I know obviously fans of the past are always hoping for a reunion and all these kinds of things, and honestly I never thought things would disband and stop like they did years back. But I didn't have any control over that, so I moved forward with my life with the cards that were dealt. And I'm pretty happy with the hand I have right now.

Is Dave as hard of a person to get along with as the media perceives? And if so, how did it work for so long for so many years with you guys?

Well, I think in general, I was just really happy to be there. When I was 16 years old, I had this hunch and I'll never forget it. I was standing out where I grew up at a farm. My bands would always rehearse in one of my dad's sheds on his farm. And I got this feeling at 16 years old standing there in the band room just goin', “Man, I gotta get up to L.A.” And I don't know where that came from, but it was just a hunch I had and I continued to follow it. And over the years I watched the scene develop more and more with metal out in L.A. So at 18, right after I graduated high school, I moved out to L.A. And about three or four days after I was there I met Dave. He had just parted ways with Metallica. He was the real deal, unlike a lot of other people in L.A. who were all just copycats and wannabes [laughs]. And he had incredible talent and great songwriting abilities. And that was real clear to me. So we worked up and moved forward and through all, the thing about it was, that was a real rock 'n roll band and with everything that went with it. If anyone needs evidence just watch the Behind the Music on VH1 [laughs]. That tells the story. Much like Guns N' Roses or the Sex Pistols or any rock n' roll band that's worth a shit in this world, we were one of them on every level. And to me it just felt like staying there was the thing to do. And I think that's how it went. Now, other people had different agendas and different things. I think some people may have even come through there and looked at it as an opportunity and a stepping stone to their solo career, which was never my deal. It was just great to be part of building something from the ground up and goin' the distance with it. And watching it rise up.

That's why I never expected it to end, but one day it did. And I think at that point in my life, honestly I think I was ready to step out from being Dave No. 2, so to speak. I had grown up a lot over those years, kinda found some new things in life. I wasn't the same guy that I was when I was 18 and just moved to California. The music scene was different. I mean, everything had changed. Keep in mind this was 2002, so almost 20 years later. So the world's a much different place not only as we know it, but just in my life. So I think making the decision to move forward and get on with some new stuff rather than just sittin' around hoping and waiting one day maybe it'll reform or whatever—You know, I got movin' on new things and in doin' that I had these new experiences and F5 came into be. And all of a sudden when the former group reformed I was already miles down a new road. And I had to make a very difficult decision at that point. “Do you try to make this work? Do I stay the course?” Obviously, we went through some discussions and transitions, and it didn't work out. But at the same time, as much as we might of all wanted that to work or trying to be willing to make it work, I think at some point sometimes there's greater forces at work in this world, stuff that's in our desires.

So it was best to try and let it go with a good blessing and let them do their thing—allow Dave to move on so he can do what he wants to do and I move on to do what it seems like I want to do at this point in my life. And I think that is a healthy thing to do. I know it can be disappointing to fans that wish they're together and wish they would reunite. And, you know, as we've all seen, those things do happen, but they need to happen on their own time. That's why I always leave an open door for that. I never have closed that door and said, “No way, no way,” because probably there will be some point where that all just might work out really cool. And it would be really good for everybody. In the meantime, I'm just kinda fielding the things that are coming across my path and I'm not really trying too hard. I'm not trying to chase things down, just kinda tryin' to let the river of life flow. And some really cool things have crossed my radar screen. I've gotten involved in some things I never thought I would've.

And this might tie into your other question which is I think ultimately these things help the legacy of the entire former band and everything that goes with it. Now instead of it just being “those guys were great once” way back when, I think it shows that each and every one of us had our own talents and abilities and it was never one person. It was always greater than the sum of its parts at all times. So what we're seein' now is a lot of former members goin' out and doin' new stuff. And what's cool about it is no one's sittin' around tryin' to recreate past glory days either, which I think is cool. There's no spite or scorn or hatred about it and I think that's cool. Marty's in Japan doin' his thing, me and Jimmy are off doin' our thing, Al Petrelli is doin' the Transiberian Orchestra—we're all involved in some pretty hip, pretty cool things and stuff right now, making a contribution to the bigger picture. And ultimately, hopefully, I think that will elevate the legacy of the whole thing.

Who turned out to be the most surprising person or rockstar you crossed paths with that people perceived as a bad guy that we wouldn't expect? Who was the worst?

Interesting ... You kinda get what you get, if you know what I mean. Gene Simmons over the years that I've met him ... he's got a public persona and he's certainly all that, but my dealings with him were all pretty pleasant. I found him to just be really wise, very cool. And, of course, this was before they put the makeup back on and got the machine rollin' again. It was during the whole KISS Alive III, Kiss My Ass era. But he was really cool. He was just a guy that was really down with hangin' with the current crop of musicians, which I guess I would've been one of 'em at that time—the new regime. So he was maybe not surprising but definitely a cool guy. As far as bad guys go, I try not to get too tangled up with too many bad guys [laughs]. Sometimes you hear about 'em and I just kinda naturally gravitate away from them. It's like I got some kind of a karma meter or repellent or something [laughs]. I just stay away from 'em. And I don't know what that is. I'm just spared the agony of having to fucking deal with some of these people that are notorious pains in the asses.

What are your hopes for the new Metallica album and when do you think Chinese Democracy will be released?

Well, Chinese Democracy just makes you wonder, “Is there really a record?” Number one, because it's been out there for so long. And again, that to me is a perfect example of “It's not a one man show.” And the sum is definitely greater than the sum of the parts. So that's kinda sad, the demise of that one because—In fact I was just listening to “Welcome to the Jungle” today, just goin', “Holy shit! These guys were so awesome!” That's one of my favorite records ever. I'll never forget when I first heard it. Me and Dave were driving down to Lake Elsinore to go jet skiing. It came on like BBC or something, like “Mr. Brownstone,”and I just went, “Holy shit! What is this? That's fuckin' rad!” And then when I heard the record, I was like, “Oh my God! This is the end of the world as we know it.” So it's sad to see something like that fall apart.

As far as the Metallica album, I have huge, huge hopes for it—really, really high hopes, because Metallica has always been the leader throughout their whole career, maybe up until St. Anger. But it's funny because with St. Anger, they were trying to go places and I think maybe had they been a little more united internally on other fronts, then it probably would've been a much different record. Even as I listen to that, they were certainly doing what Metallica always does. So my hope is that this new record will be what the past Metallica records have always been, which is you turn your head and watch Metallica carve a great big huge giant swat through the uncharted territory.

That's about it. We got into a lot of cool stuff. I just always like to thank the fans for following and hanging. And I'm thinkin' with this new F5 record we got something really cool, probably one of the better musical offerings I've had in the last few years. I think it's something that's really solid and really steps up and delivers.