Zakk Wylde talks Black Label Society’s ‘Order of the Black’

August 11, 2010

Since being replaced earlier this year as Ozzy Osbourne’s guitarist by Gus G., Zakk Wylde has been able to focus on his own band, Black Label Society, full-time or, as he puts it, “25/8.” “I like working,” he says, and boy does he mean it. The latest BLS album, Order of the Black, recorded in Zakk’s new home studio (the “Black Label Bunker”), hits stores Aug. 10, and he’s planning nearly two years on the road supporting it, starting this month with Ozzfest and continuing into the fall with the Black Label Bezerkus, also featuring Children of Bodom, Clutch and 2Cents. But that’s not all. Zakk also is planning to write and direct a movie, writing two books and has his eyes set on opening a few Black Label pubs. One week before the new album’s release, Wylde answered questions from a handful of journalists, including Live-Metal’s Greg Maki, in a conference call. Highlights from the 40-plus-minute session follow.

Zakk on the “Bunker”:

“I remember telling Ozzy, when he put in the studio in, I just go, ‘Ozz, can you imagine how much money you must have spent in studio time from the first Black Sabbath record to now? You could’ve basically bought a small country, dude, with the amount of money you’ve spent.’ Break it down: If it’s $1,000 a day, you’re in there for 80 days—that’s $80,000 right there. It’s just like with buying a house. It’s not so much the mortgage payment, it’s the down payment on the house. Any young band starting, especially when they used to give big record advances, the best thing would have probably been to do, buy your own recording studio and just record your album there, and then you always have this recording studio forever. Any band, when you get a record deal, you sign the record deal and then you have to pay the studio and then you have to pay the guy that’s gonna engineer the record, whoever the producer guy is. Next thing you know, there’s $250,000 gone that you could’ve used to buy a studio.”

“I never had any time restrictions. I never recorded like that back in the day. Every Black Label album we’ve done or Ozzy record, we’d go in there … I’ve done enough records now, I know what type of mics to use and settings … I’ve been doing it long enough where you know what clean guitar tones you want to get, nice, warm, clean guitar sounds and acoustic, piano, electric—whatever. That was never a problem in the past. We wouldn’t take a week to drum sounds. That’s just insanity. The engineer doesn’t now what the hell he’s doing. It shouldn’t take that long. I remember reading, with Ozzy when they were doing The Ultimate Sin, Jake E. Lee was saying, I remember reading in an article, he said, ‘Oh yeah, it took us like four days to get a guitar tone.’ That’s insane. And that’s with Ron Nevison, who worked with Led Zeppelin. Four days to get a guitar tone? Are you guys smoking crack? You take 10 minutes to get the guitar sound and then the rest of the whole day is getting loaded? I don’t understand that. I mean, four days. Give me a break, man. That’s ridiculous. I’d end up breaking somebody’s legs if it took me four days to get a guitar tone.”

“(The studio’s) road-tested now. Usually, when you have the studio, you’re gonna need another place to mix. We recorded and I brought it to another place to mix, which had a big old SSL board, the whole nine yards and all the bells and whistles. And the mixes from the studio smoked it. So now I can actually make the doughnuts in here, actually wrap ‘em up, box ‘em and send ‘em out. It’s one-stop shopping. I can actually do everything in the Bunker. So I’m completely stoked.”

On the departure of drummer Craig Nunenmacher:

“Craig just said, he was like, ‘Zakk, unless we’re touring year-round, I think I’m gonna move and start doing some other things.’ … I said, ‘Craig, you always have a home here.’ Like I said, nobody’s ever been fired with Black Label. If you can make more money playing drums with Celine Dion, I’m not gonna stop you from doing it. You can always come back to Black Label. You always got a gig here. That’s the beautiful thing about Black Label. You can always come and go. That’s the beautiful thing about it.”

On new drummer Will Hunt:

“I’m at this point in my career where we don’t have to set up 50,000 drum auditions or go through tapes. Will was out on the road on the Pedal to the Metal tour, and he was jamming with Static-X. We all hung out with each other. When Craigo told me, ‘Zakk, I’m not gonna be rolling on this thing anymore,’ first thing we did was talk to Nick and then I said, ‘Dude, what’s Will doing? See if he’s doing anything with Evanescence or he’s doing the Static-X thing. See what his status is.’ We talked to Will, and he said, ‘No, Zakk, I’m just chilling out right now. I’ve got nothing going on.’ I go, ‘Just come on out, make the record and we’ll take it from there.’ … I said, ‘Well, dude, we’d love to have you. If you want to do the record and do the tour, you’re more than welcome to do that.’ So Will just came out, knocked the record out and now he’s doing the tour. So it’s game on, man. Will’s on. The requisites to be in the band: can’t be an asshole and you have to know how to play your instrument, and Will fits the job description fine. Everything’s killer, man. Will’s awesome.”

On writing for Ozzy and Black Label Society:

“The only thing that I ever said I’m not gonna bring this to the boss was when I was doing the Pride and Glory stuff. You’re not gonna have banjos and mandolins flying around on an Ozzy record. … Whenever I would go in and write an Ozzy record, I’d write the riffs just like I was gonna write a Black Label album. It’s gonna be a metal or hard rock riff. I never approached it that way, like I’m gonna save this for Black Label. If they would’ve wrote ‘Stairway to Heaven’ on the first album, they would’ve put it on the first album. It’s like, oh, we’ll save this one for down the line. It’s like, dude, we might die in freak gardening accident later on in the day. Just freakin’ record the thing.”

On downloading:

“I don’t think you’re ever gonna stop it. Me personally, Robin Trower’s album is coming out the same day as ours. I’m going to buy the Robin Trower record, and I’m gonna illegally download the Black Label album—screw them guys! But I will legally purchase the Robin Trower record. Even back in the day, put it this way, if my Led Zeppelin record broke, I went and bought another one. I want to own the thing.

“My nephew, I remember going through this with him, ‘cause he’s all into the rap stuff and everything. … I remember he had just a stack of blank CDs with Sharpie marker on it, DMX, this one, that one, Run DMC. He had a Run DMC shirt on. I go, ‘Where’d you get that shirt?’ He goes, ‘I went down to the gig. I saw ‘em when they were in New York .’ ‘Did you buy the shirt?’ He goes, ‘Yeah, of course. I bought it at the concert.’ I go, ‘So did you reach over the counter and just grab the shirt and just take off?’ And he goes, ‘No. This shirt cost 20 bucks.’ I go, ‘Exactly. Do you know what you’re doing is basically stealing a T-shirt every time you download one of these CDs, dude?’ I go, ‘It’s your favorite band. Do you realize you’re stealing from ‘em, dude?’ Yeah, I get it. Jimmy Page has enough money already. But you know what, though? He did the work and not only that, all the guys that worked on the record, down to the engineer and all the guys that busted their balls so you could have that great Led Zeppelin IV record, that’s what you’re paying for when you buy it. I go, ‘Do you understand that?’ I go, ‘Are you just that damn cheap that you can’t spend 10 bucks on a record, bro?’ You’re never gonna stop it either. Me and Rob Zombie were talking about it a couple days ago. Rob was even saying, ‘Zakk, these young kids, I don’t even know where to start.’ Unless you’re an established live act now, you can go out and sell your T-shirts and tour, but it’s gonna be like the old days. You just gotta get in a van, and you’ve just gotta bust your balls touring.”

On songs from Order of the Black with special meaning:

“’January,’ the lyrics are about my father ‘cause he passed away in January. So I wrote that about my dad. Like every record I’ve always done, each song, I love ‘em all. It depends on what mood you’re in. I listen to all my Led Zeppelin records and it’s like, what’s you’re favorite one? It’s like, dude, I love ‘em all. It depends on which one I haven’t worn out yet or just what one I’m in the mood for. They’ve each got their own thing.”

On the Black Label Bezerkus:

“We were talking about bands to bring out and stuff like that. One of my buddies, he really digs Clutch. It was just like, ‘Dude, why don’t we see if they want to come out with us?’ ‘Cause I dig Clutch as well. They’re a kickass band. … 2Cents, my manager, Bob, knows the manager who manages the band. I heard them and they’re an ass-kicking band, so we’re bringing them out with us. Then obviously, Children of Bodom. Me and Alexi (Laiho) did a cover for Guitar World with Steve Vai. We were just talking about doing something years ago. We were like, ‘Man, it would be killer if we ever went out.’ Now is the time. I called ‘em up and they’re getting ready. They’re finishing their new album, so it’s perfect timing.”

On the four-year gap between BLS albums:

“I can’t believe it’s been that long. We were touring and doing stuff in between it. I don’t know. I can’t say it’ll never happen again. Obviously, this tour’s gonna probably be almost two years, we plan on being out on the road. While I’m out there, I’m writing a script. I want to do a movie as soon as—I’m writing it, I’m gonna direct the thing. I’m gonna do a movie when we get off the road. If we’re out touring for two years, maybe take a month or two off ... Probably won’t even take a month off. I mean, to do what? To sit around and do nothing? I like working. If we’re touring for two years, then obviously we’re not gonna put an album out for two years. We might figure out something in between there, maybe put out an acoustic EP or something. ‘Cause now that I’ve got the Bunker, if we take a month off, it’s not even a month off. It would just be a month of recording. Then we go back out on the road.”

On his health and giving up drinking alcohol:

“With the blood clots, it was just like the back of my leg was freakin’ killing me. I was putting ice on it, the whole nine yards. I was just like, ‘What the hell am I doing to my leg?’ Just trying to troubleshoot it, maybe we went out drinking, hit an Irish pub and maybe I was doing David Lee Roth splits off the bar or something—just trying to figure out what ridiculous thing we were doing. Onstage, when we’re doing the Black Label gigs, I’m strapped up at the microphone. It’s not like an Ozzy gig where I’m jumping off of things or whatever. When I got the ultrasound, the doctor was just like, ‘Zakk, you’ve got three blood clots.’ I was like, ‘How the hell did I get these things?’ … He goes, ‘Zakk, usually truck drivers will get it or airplane pilots.’ … For that matter, I guess people working on a laptop, sitting there for 12 hours a day on a laptop, doing that for a living, a graphic artist or something. He goes, ‘Yeah, pretty much, Zakk, if you’re just stationary in one position, that’s the reason why these things happen.’ … He said, ‘Basically, your body has to break ‘em down. It’s not like having a toothache where you get a root canal and then you’re good to do.’ He said that it’s not like that. He said that your body physically has to break it down.

“As far as the alcohol went, he goes, ‘Zakk, you’re gonna be on blood-thinners. Put it this way: let me take it, you don’t drink like one or two beers if you’re watching Monday Night Football with the guys or you’re watching the Super Bowl.’ I go, ‘No, probably not one or two beers.’ He goes, ‘You could be out watching the fight at Hooters with the guys, and Zakk, if you guys are beserking and hammered … between the blood-thinners and the alcohol, which is a blood-thinner, Zakk, you’ll just start spilling over and bleeding out inside.’ He goes, ‘Literally, you’ll be bleeding out of your eyes, your mouth. You’re done. Done.’ I go, ‘So it’s safe to say, the pub is closed for Zakk Wylde.’ He goes, ‘Pretty much, jackass.’

“Some of these guys are asking me, ‘Well, good for you, brother. So you with the 12-step program?’ I go, ‘No, the Black Label one-step—that’s it, you’re done, OK?’ I don’t need to spend $40,000 on some guy telling me that I shouldn’t be drinking. The doctor told me that’s it, you’re done. How’d you quit? You just quit. I don’t know what to tell you. How did you learn how to play ‘Stairway to Heaven’? You practice. I don’t know what to tell you. I’ll show you how to play the chords, you gotta put in the time. It’s that easy. That’s the reason why in Black Label the colors are black and white. The gray issue? Yeah, there’s a lot of gray issue, but the only thing that anyone cares about is what happens from point A to the final result. So there you go.

“But as far as do I miss drinking with the guys, I still go to pubs and I still hang out ‘cause I like the whole social thing and just chilling and getting away from the whole music thing and the biz part of the thing, just to hang out with my buddies and talk about anything that’s going on in the news, sports, anything.”

On having the option to spend more time recording in his own studio:

“You just go in and it’s business as usual, Black Label-style. Just knock it out. I’ll sit there and you start singing. There’s an hour of Seinfeld on from 7 to 8, I’ll just sit here and write some lyrics and listen to it over and over, ‘cause I’ve already got a melody, I’ve just gotta come up with some lyrics. That’s the way we’ve always done it. Same thing. We went in the studio, from beginning to mastering with George Marino, it was 94 days. So that’s it. I never understood the mentality of spending six months writing a record, then another four months rehearsing it, then another three months writing again and then another two months of rehearsing—it’s like, are you kidding me? Get in there and play the thing already.”

On Justin Bieber’s guitarist, Dan Kanter, playing his signature bullseye guitar:

“It’s an honor. [laughs] The day that Black Label is playing Gilette Stadium and Wembley Stadium, I’ll definitely get you tickets for that one. Yeah, without a doubt. Dan Kanter’s cool as hell, man. Put it this way: All the Justin Bieber fans, when they see me, they’ll go, ‘Yeah, that guy with the beard over there, yeah, that dude in the Bleak Label whatever the hell it is, plays the Dan Kanter guitar, man.’” [laughter]

On his relationship with Ozzy:

“Ozz, everything’s great, man. Ozz is singing great on the record, and Gus is playing his ass off. And Blasko, I’m happy for Blasko. He’s a Black Label brother. I’m looking forward to seeing the guys in August. I talked to Ozz on Father’s Day. Me and the warden went out to dinner with Ozz and Mom. Everything’s great, man. It’s just like, you don’t live at home with your parents anymore. It’s not that you love your parents any less. Let’s be real, without the boss there’d be no Zakk Wylde, there’d be no Black Label, I wouldn’t have the Black Label Bunker, I wouldn’t be doing my own record label, I wouldn’t be getting ready to be putting out books and all this other stuff. I’m getting ready to write a script for a movie and then starting Black Label pubs and all this other stuff—the beef jerky, the coffee, the hot sauces, beer. All this stuff wouldn’t be possible, if it wasn’t for the boss.”

On songwriting:

“The chords will inspire you to sing a melody over it. So usually with me, whether I’m writing on piano or acoustic guitar or we’re gonna do something heavy, the riff will dictate kind of what the melody’s gonna be, if I’m gonna sing the riff or if I’m gonna sing—like Ozz, he would always have his trademark thing where he was gonna sing the riff on certain ones and other ones he would just do a polyrhythm against the riff or whatever. The sky’s the limit. For me, it’s always usually the music first, then the melody, then I’ll start singing, or else I’ll see something, like a cool line going to see a movie or something, or I’ll see a title in the newspaper or something. I go, ‘Man, that would be a great name for a song.’ I’ll write it down and then later on down the road, I’ll be like, ‘Yeah, I want to use that as a title for a song’ or chorus or whatever, and I’ll write a song about that.”

On the movie he’s planning to make:

“It’s gonna be basically a Mel Brooks/Monty Python-on-steroids-type-thing. I’ll let you know more about it the more it’s coming together.”

On performing acoustically:

“Eventually down the line, we can go out with Black Label and just do an unplugged tour. We’ll just go out with a quartet of strings and the band, and actually do an unplugged thing. I always thought that would be cool, a real small, intimate thing. We’re planning on being out for almost two years. If we take a break in between anywhere in there, like a month off, you just go in the studio and record an acoustic EP, and then get back out on the road and keep touring.”

On potential tours:

“Originally, before anything went down, before even the Bezerkus, I was talking to Slash and Jerry (Cantrell) about doing Alice (in Chains), Black Label and Slash, the three of us idiots, the three amigos going out on the road together. But Jerry, they had already committed to putting this tour together that they’re doing now, with Deftones and the guys, and Slash was already committed to doing his thing, so that was out the window.”

“{HellYeah drummer) Vinnie (Paul) already made commitments. We were talking to Vinnie about going out. And then the Drowning Pool guys, I’ll see those guys on the Ozzfest. I’m friends with all the guys, so it’s a matter of just calling each other up and going, ‘Vin, what are you doing?’ He’s like, ‘Zakk, we already committed to this.’ And I go, ‘Alright, maybe we’ll do it later on when you get done doing what you’re doing.’

On the books he’s writing:

“I’m in the middle of writing the Zakk Wylde Black Label guitar bible. That’s this book right now I’m writing, just like an instructional thing with a DVD . It’s gonna be a big-ass book, with all my gear, explaining everything, mic techniques in the studio, live, everything—just an ass-kicking book. So I’m working on that. And I’m actually writing another book with my buddy Eric right now, just like Zakk Wylde bringing metal to the children. It’s like this rock ‘n’ roll survival guide, basically a coffee table book you can pick anywhere in this book and start laughing your balls off. Like I said, every day when I wake up, on the Black Label crap-to-do list, the thing is loaded. Put it this way: I don’t sit around going, ‘I’m bored.’ That never happens. There are no Saturdays or Sundays. It’s 25/8, 366 days a year, which I wouldn’t change it for nothing.”

On the Black Label pubs:

“It’s gonna be a mix of a sports bar type thing, and then I’m also gonna have live bands.”

On Ozzy’s autobiography, I Am Ozzy:

“Who would’ve ever thought I would have been in Ozzy’s book when I was 15 years old? I love Ozzy. He sent me a copy of the book and he wrote some stuff in there for me. I think the book’s great, man.”